The Mahotella Queens performed April 29th at the LET FREEDOM SING! Benefit Concert for Afropop Worldwide, where they were inducted into the Afropop Hall of Fame.

Banning Eyre of afropop.org caught up with Hilda Tloubatla of the Mahotella Queens at the 2000 World Music Trade Fair in Berlin. WOMEX 2000 honored their lifetime in music with the WOMEX award.

Banning Eyre: Hilda, bring us up to date on what's happening with the Mahotella Queens.

Hilda Tloubatla: It's a rebirth of the Mahotella Queens. After Marks Mankwane and Mahlathini left us we felt like we were dead. For some months we were dead spiritually. At the end of the day, I said to the ladies, "It's no use. These guys are gone. We have to keep the fire burning." We had to restart the thing--the Mahotella Queens only, and the new band of course. We have recorded as the Mahotella Queens the first time since their death.

BE: Tell us about one or two songs on the album, Sebai Bai, particularly important to you.

HT: One song that is really important to me is "'Town Hall." It's a Zulu song. It's talking about us, the ladies, that here we are--the strong ladies of the fifties. Here we are, back again. Here we are, bringing down all the walls all over again. The other one that is interesting is "Sebai Bai." It's the name of a gal who doesn't beg for boyfriends. She's rich. The parents died and left her money so she doesn't care for men. She only cares for herself and nothing else. This is what we are. We're grownups and now looking forward to last of our lives. We have to really take care of us and forget about the rest of the things.

BE: In doing the research for this program, I was listening to these old CD's that were released from the old days in South Africa and I found this track by you. It just says Hilda Tloubatla and it must be from the 1950's. I believe it was in the compilation they called South Sesotho. You made recordings under your own name even before there were the Mahotella Queens, is that right?

HT: Yes, for the radio stations.

BE: That time was so long ago and everything was so different then. In those days everybody was kept separate and everybody had there own radio station. Talk a little bit about the change you've seen in the music world in your life.

HT: Really, music in South Africa has now changed. But they still have that thing for us. Guys in South Africa, in the radio stations and the TV, I don't know whether they say "These guys are old. We can not play them." They don't play us. You can only listen to Mahotella Queens once after two or three or six. As much as you feel ashamed of saying things over the radio, at times, for me, not saying it to the outside world I am killing myself. Guys there are working differently. You have to give a certain amount to the DJ to say you only play my CD and that's it. And sure the DJ will do that. If you give a DJ a couple of hundreds he will only stick to your music and none of the others and he kills the others. When coming down to music, during apartheid, the olden days, guys really played our music. Now in South Africa they are re-recording our songs. Ultimately, that shows that come what may, this is general music. We may try to run away from it, but it is general music.

BE: Kwaito does seem to be this kind of music that reflects back a lot of things and mixes. It's like hip-hop. It throws many things together. So, I'm not surprised that they are taking your songs.

HT: Yes, they are now taking our old music, re-recording them, and playing them into their style now.

BE: Your music is immortal.

HT: Our music never ends. It keeps on going for the rest of our lives.

BE: So, it's hard to get radio play for you guys because the DJ's want money. But you are getting concerts and packing the town halls. Who comes, old people or young people?

HT: The young people are coming too. They fill the place. They say this is unbelievable. We cannot do what you guys do. It's just too much for us. They say what we are doing is more difficult for them but they enjoy it.

BE: What was it like putting together a new band?

HT: We were left with only two old guys from the old band. They have really grown up. Otherwise, there are a lot of young guys. They are still young and full of excitement. But they know that they are getting into somebody's shoes--somebody who has been doing their job so well. You really have to do it; not just play it. They know that they jumped into these people's shoes, and that is hard, but they've got to do it. When Mahlathini died, we had a new Mahlathini, but it didn't work out because Mahlathini is Mahlathini. There will never ever be another Mahlathini and that voice.

BE: What was it like in those old days when you would go into the studio for SABC(South African Broadcasting Corporation) and record? What was a session like before Mahotella Queens?

HT: The radio stations just keep the tapes. They don't make CD's out of them. They've got so many compositions of ours that are kept there. During those days if you recorded with SABC you wouldn't record with anyone else, not even your record company. You've done that with SABC and so you cannot get it. But now I could re-record a song. I am allowed to do that now.

BE: They would just pay you one time for that?

HT: Yeah that's it. No royalties.

BE: So, in those days before the Mahotella Queens, this would be the early 1960's, who was your band?

HT: During those days you just grabbed anyone who could play. Say, Banning, you can play lead, someone else can play bass guitar. You go play a session at SABC and that's it. Now, they want to make CD's, take old songs and make a copy out of it and sell it to the people. It's unfortunate. There should be an argument between the SABC and the recording companies.

BE: Not to mention the singers and players. Talk about those radio stations where it was each one for a particular language.

HT: We had a radio station for Sesotho speaking people only. They would only play Sesotho songs and not Zulu songs. The same applied to each. If I were to compose a song I'm not allowed to mix the two languages. A lot of things were happening. All craziness.

BE: Why were they doing that?

HT: I don't know. During apartheid they did a lot of funny things that when you think of it now you see that it was madness. In a song, if you just call anything whatever you think is right they wouldn't allow that. But now, in kwaito music you can even swear. I'm not saying that it is bad, but when you're sitting at home with your children, watching the music, listening to the language, you feel like, my God, let me close my eyes. My God, what are they saying? You become ashamed. Fortunately, they did not allow that before.

BE: Apartheid wasn't that long ago, but it is a whole new world now. So which way do you think South Africa is going to go now?

HT: A lot of wrong things are happening. There is too much crime. But I have the belief that it is not South Africans who are doing all of this.

BE: It hasn't been very long though. It's a period of change. Maybe with some time things will come right.

HT: I always say that to myself, that maybe by 2006 things will be OK.

BE: It's good that South Africans have the Mahotella Queens to remind them that there were some good things in the past.

HT: Yeah, at least South Africa still has people who can relate about the olden days. - Interview transcribed by Christina Zanfagna for afropop

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