Joy Mutare, a Zimbabwean living in New York City and working in the commercial radio industry, interviewed Thomas Mapfumo Monday March 18th for Afropop Worldwide and afropop.org. Afropop Worldwide Producer, Sean Barlow, was also in the studio to ask a few questions, speaking by telephone to Mapfumo in Oregon where he now lives with his family. Singer, composer and bandleader Thomas Mapfumo has a thirty year career of prolific recording and performing in Zimababwe. His chimurenga songs are identified with the liberation struggle against the white minority regime in Rhodesia of the 1970s. Post-independence, Mapfumo's songs have addressed head on serious issues such as corruption, land reform and now the conduct of the presidential elections much to the displeasure of President Robert Mugabe's ruling ZANU-PF party. Joy Mutare introduced Thomas Mapfumo to our APWW radio audience this way: "The people of Zimbabwe love Thomas because he has always been the voice for the voiceless. It does not matter about who is in power at the time, if what they are doing is wrong, he is going to talk about it. Not only is he a great entertainer, but he's a great voice for us."
NB: Check Listen Live on the afropop.org homepage for times this weekend when you can hear this interview and the U.S. debut of Mapfumo's latest cassette "Chimurenga Rebel" and other new music from Zimbabwe on Afropop Worldwide's "Zimbabwe 2002: A Moment of Truth".

Joy Mutare: We want to know what you think happened with the elections in Zimbabwe
Thomas Mapfumo: Well, well, well, well, well….this is quite a sad story. You heard from the news what happened. I don't think this was a free and fair election. They were NOT free and fair. They were rigged from the very beginning.

JM: Why would you say that?
TM: Because a lot of people did not vote. You heard from the news always that people were being harassed. People were being beaten up in the pubs, everywhere, in the townships. People were asked if they had ZANU-PF cards… When I went to Zimbabwe myself (over Christmas holidays 2001) I went to see my folks in the rural area. I met a young group of people. They started asking about ZANU-PF membership cards. What has that got to do with the people? What is ZANU? ZANU is not Zimbabwe.

JM: What do you think about us Zimabweans living abroad not being allowed to vote? Not having an absentee ballot?
TM: This is something. You have to fight for your rights. Everyone has the right to vote for whomever he wants or she wants. So this is ridiculous. I mean you are a Zimbabwean citizen. And to be denied the right to vote, I don't think that's good enough.

JM: What do you think should be the first step for us Zimbabweans living abroad? Should we go the embassies?
TM: You should be united. You must add your voice to what happened. If you just keep quiet…it's like what is happening today back home. A lot of people are grumbling but that does not help. You have to go out in the street and protest and show everyone that this was not a free and fair election. Yeah, you really got to do that. Just by sitting at home and feeling bad does not help at all. You have to act.

Sean Barlow: Thomas, we're hearing from our colleagues in Zimbabwe that the next step may be a general strike by the trade unions. We're also hearing people are afraid to go out and protest because they fear the police or the Army will be very violent.
TM: They cannot kill you all. You go out there and say "this is not what we want." Do you think the soldiers and policemen are going to kill every Zimbabwean citizen? Do you think that is going to happen?

SB: No

JM: We need leadership, and for a very long time you have been one of our biggest leaders through your music. You have been able to fight unfairness within the government...now the government has effectively banned some of your music. How are we going to continue the fight when our leaders are leaving the country?
TM: Myself, I'm not running away from anything. I'm not even afraid for my own life. I'm not afraid of them. Zimbabwe is still my home. I could fly there tonight and I could be there tomorrow. No one is going to stop me. Because I know the people are behind me. So if the people are behind me, why should I be afraid?! I'm not afraid of anyone.

JM: Congratulations on your latest cassette "Chimurenga Rebel" which has sold over 30,000 copies in two days. Is that a correct figure?
TM: It is very true, but now the people (in Zimbabwe) have been intimidated. Some people who had been seen buying this type of music were warned. People are just afraid just to play the music because of the violence which is going on there. This record should have sold more than 100,000 copies but because of the intimidation which is going on there people are afraid to buy the music. Because they are afraid of being victimized.

JM: Is the song "Marima Nzara" on "Chimurenga Rebel" a political statement? What is it saying?
TM: "Marima Nzara" is a song about the situation. What is happening today. The situation has started deteriorating. People are now suffering from hunger because there are food shortages. And a lot of things are missing in the country. There is no foreign currency. People are suffering. I mean this is only the beginning! If people don't realize where they are headed then they are in deep waters. They are in deep waters.

JM: So "nzara" means hunger,yes? TM: Yeah, by fighting against the commercial farmers and harassing them, what are we creating?! We are inviting hunger.

JM: So that is your stand on the land issue?
TM: Yes. That is my stand. I'm not saying our people don't need land. Our people need land. But it must be done in a proper manner where everyone should be left satisfied.

JM: What do you think about the fact that the international community is telling Zimbabwe what to with their policies, as far as imposing sanctions. Do you think they are justified or not justified?
TM: They are justified. Because as you can see, we're saying the elections were not free and fair. The EU monitors left the country because there was no fairness in these elections. They were actually rigged a long, long time ago. Before we even started talking about them, they had started rigging the elections.

JM: What do you think about the support that Mugabe is getting from all…the fact that (South African President) Thabo Mbeki is not saying anything against what happened in Zimbabwe?
TM: Because they are the same. Birds of a feather flock together. I'm talking about certain African leaders who do not want to let go of the power. Those are his (Mubabe's) friends. They act like him. You can look at people like Moi (President of Kenya). He does not want to let go of power. He's just the same. That country Kenya. What do you get from Kenya or Namibia? Namibia can not feed Zimbabwe. But those European countries. They were the donors. They were helping Zimbabwe to develop. And today we don't want to talk to them, we don't want to see them. So who is going to help us?

JM: So what is the way forward?
TM: The way forward is for every Zimbabwean to be united and fight against this evil system.

SB: Thomas, I'm interested in what you said a while back in the interview, you said you're a musician concerned with the events of his country, and you're even considering yourself as a politician. Do you mean that you may be thinking of running for a political office in Zimbabwe?
TM: I want to work for the people of Zimbabwe. Maybe I'm not going to join any political party, but I just want to work for the people of Zimbabwe, for their better tomorrow, for a better Zimbabwe. That's exactly what I want to do.

JM: What is the song "Huni" on your new cassette "Chimurenga Rebel" about?
TM: "Huni" is about the harassment that is going on in Zimbabwe . You can't play around with the people. They have got the mandate and the power to choose anyone.

JM: Well how do we have the power if the power is seemingly being taken away from us? If millions of people who want to vote are not allowed to vote?
TM: You've got to find a way to fight against the system. We have to do something. We have to be united, to find a way forward…like I said you have to go out in the streets and protest. Show the world that this was indeed wrong. Show the world. You have to show the world! And the outside world cannot just sit back and look at you people suffering. They will do something about it.

JM: Sanctions are affecting us.
TM: It's a way of trying to get rid of these bad elements. They are not imposing sanctions to make the majority of Zimbabweans suffer. They are trying to get rid of this evil system.

JM: Do you think Morgan Tsvangirai of the MDC would have been the better option than the government of Robert Mugabe?
TM: You can never tell. You can never know what happens with these politicians. They can say something today and tomorrow they will be speaking a different language. You have to be very careful with a lot of these politicians. They promise you something today and tomorrow they don't do exactly that. You remember when ZANU-PF came into power. They were promising people lots of things like our children having free education, free medical aid, and things like that. Is that happening today?

JM: No.
TM: It's not happening. So you can't trust the politicians. You have to trust yourself and trust the people. Trust the people because they are the majority. Whatever they say--If the people are satisfied with (Morgan) Tsvangirai (main Opposition leader and presidential candidate in recent elections), give him a chance to rule!…And another thing, why isn't Tsvangirai given a chance to speak to people on the television? Or even through the radio? Because they (ZANU-PF and the government) know that Tsvangirai might have something that is actually going to upset them.

Would you like to talk back to Thomas Mapfumo? Go to the community discussion area on afropop.org homepage and click through to discussion.

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(c) 2002 World Music Productions. All rights reserved. Photographs (c) 2002 Banning Eyre for afropop.org.

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