The morning after his stellar performance at WOMEX 2010 in Copenhagen, Congolese superstar Papa Wemba sat down with Afropop’s Banning Eyre for a long overdue interview. Here’s their conversation.
P.W.: Hello, hello to everyone who is listening to us, direct from Copenhagen!
B.E.: And Afropop gives a big welcome to Papa Wemba.
P.W.: Thank you.
B.E.: Wow... it has been a long journey. I remember so well the first time we met back in 1987. By then Zaiko Langa Langa had already been around for 18 years so there was already a long history. But since then many things have happened. So what's new with Papa Wemba?
P.W.: My news is that I've already released one new album, which has been out since July – Notre Père Rumba, and I’ve promised to release a second one. I have always had a weakness for the Congolese rumba since that's where I started my career and I'd never want to move away from that. But I know that there's also a big audience waiting expectantly because it's been 15 years since I last released an album globally. So I put all my energy into it, I put my heart, my love, my know-how into it. This next album should, barring the unforeseen, be out at the beginning of next year, fingers crossed.
B.E.: Great. And what will that album be called?
P.W.: Notre Père Wemba Dyo.
B.E.: Notre Père (Our Father)..
P.W.: Notre Père!
B.E.: That title is well-deserved now. It has always been an issue for you, having two publics – the African/Congolese audience and the world audience. Have you reached the point where it is possible to give them both one kind of music?
P.W.: I will always give two styles of music. Because, like I said, I've got a weakness for Congolese rumba but I've also moved far from there and I've got my own approach, artistically speaking. Only I can understand that, you know? And all those that follow me will also understand my development. It's really interesting, and very encouraging for me, to me. So I will always continue to lead this double career.
B.E: Did we hear any songs from the new project in last night’s set?
P.W.: Yes, oh yes! There was 'Ton Ami' and then 'Ma Rosa'. [Sings...]
B.E: Great. I heard lots of songs last night that brought me back to the past... that was beautiful. Let's talk a little about the songs of the new album that we'll hear shortly, I hope. As an introduction to the public perhaps you could say a word or two about it? What is important about the album for you, so we can understand the songs?
P.W.: Oh, there are some very important songs on the album. Mostly about the theme, which is love. Because, well, I am Catholic and God recommended to all of us to love, true love, you know? And I tell of love. I try to talk about it or sing about it in various ways. I can explain love in different ways: when there are two sides that don’t get on, they come to war. And war leads us to many things that do a lot of ill. The counter to that is love. Because when you love someone, you can't hurt them. You can't take a weapon and kill your own brother.
B.E: Love, it's a universal subject. Throughout life.
P.W.: Of course, right through life. The love of your parents, even the love of nature
B.E: And the love for your country.
P.W.: The love for your country, yes. Many people believe I have become assimilated to Belgium or France. But no, I have always remained Congolese. I'll defend that, and I love that. It's my country, it's my country. The paths of my own children have led some of them to become take on French nationality but that’s no problem. Myself, I am still Congolese. I always have my Congolese passport with me.
B.E: And you often travel there, right? When was the last time you were in Kinshasa?
P.W.: I just returned the day before yesterday!
B.E: The day before yesterday?
P.W.: Yes!
B.E: What's the scene like over there? I was last there in 2001.
P.W.: What's great about Kinshasa is that every week, over the weekend for three days running, there are concerts, out in the open air, all around the city. The public is always there, taking part, always supporting you. And there's this strong feeling of community because you need determination there!
B.E: So, 'La Belle Kine' (beautiful Kinshasa) has still got it?
P.W.: Oh yes. I really love the life of that city. You will rarely find the people of Kinshasa leaving you in the street. They will always welcome you with a smile, welcome you in, feed you and ask nothing in return.
B.E: And the music scene, what's going on there?
P.W.: There are big groups like Bana OK, and Zaiko Langa Langa, Koffi Olomide, Werrason, J.B. Mpiania, Fally Ipupa, Ferre Gola, Redy Amisi, Viva La Musica...
B.E: And that’s the group you sing with when you're there?
P.W.: Yes, of course.
B.E: So Viva La Musica is based in Kinshasa and you play with them when you're back?
P.W.: Yes I tour with them. Whenever I have concerts in Africa I take them with me.
B.E: The group we saw yesterday is based in Paris, but let’s stay with Kinshasa for a moment. Congolese music is going through some changes with the new generation, right?
P.W.: Yes, that's normal.
B.E: But there seems to be a great deal of loyalty to the past still. What do you think about the new music, specifically the new styles of music?
P.W.: The new styles... what I have to say is that unfortunately music has become too commercial. It has become too commercial, because everyone wants money, have a nice car, buy themselves some nice clothes, a beautiful house... all of that. Everything seems to be heading too quickly in that direction. Whereas in the past, we worked like dogs. But intelligently too, you know? But today that's not the case as technology has taken over and technology is always present. Today you can release just one song or one album, and you get rich straightaway. You get rich straightaway. In the past that wasn't the case. It really was not the case. You had to use all your strength, you had to use your intelligence, your savoir-faire. Today, you can sit at home and make a hit. In the past we had to record live in order to release a song, but today you can make a hit and stay at home... The musician in me is beginning to fear technology.
B.E: That's a global problem.
P.W.: Yes, it's a global problem. It's affecting us as well.
B.E: Of course. And it changes the music, the sound/sense of the recording...
P.W.: Exactly. And that's why I wanted this album, Notre Père, to be recorded live. Real musicians came to the studio to record it. It's not totally removed from the technology I was just talking about either, but there are real musicians playing on it.
B.E: Great. I remember well, even when we first met back in the 80s, it had already started with the keyboards and programmed rhythm and all that. But I know that you were always faithful to the idea of the group. Let's talk about the group that we saw last night – was that the one that you recorded the new album with?
P.W.: A few of them, yes. The drummer, the two guitarists, and the musician on the keyboard. They were all involved in the album.
B.E: And they're the musicians from Paris?
P.W.: Yes, from Paris.
B.E: They were very strong. The sound was 100% there. Great! So it's a while since we've heard from Papa Wemba. Yesterday, when I was mingling with all the people at Womex, many people were questioning whether you'd still have it... it has been twenty years. But then when you took to the stage and I heard the sound of the band and the sound of your voice, within a minute I was convinced! And afterwards I saw those same doubtful people saying 'wow!' and we were all talking about it until three in the morning.
P.W.: Oh la la!
B.E: So why Womex?
P.W.: Because it gives us the opportunity to come and sell our music, as well as to meet many people – the 'it' people/makers; managers; festival organizers. And it's a bit like a world where everyone knows each other.
B.E: It's a family.
P.W.: Yes, Womex is a family. Like Womad – it's also a family.
B.E: True, true. And for the US, it's a long time since we've seen Papa Wemba. Do you think there's a chance we'll see a Papa Wemba tour in the future?
P.W.: I'd like to do a tour, a real tour. Not just to come and do one or two shows and that's it. No, I'd like to do a real tour, several dates... that's my job! I really like tours like that, concerts in different places, even in little halls, I love it.
B.E: Yeah, I remember these shows in Boston...
P.W.: Yes, I always take to the stage with the same energy, even in front of ten people, I get up there with the same energy, the same determination. Just as when I'd be in front of a thousand people – the same emotions, the same energy, the same determination. Because for me the stage is one place where I can let go, totally.
B.E: I can see it on your face and in your movements. You can tell you're at home on stage. So, at the moment with WOMEX and your new album, it's a bit like a new introduction after a pause...
P.W.: Oh yes, I wanted to take up my art again. I insisted on it, I really wanted my music to pick up again. Because above all else, I am a singer. I've given all my life to music – I’ve been doing this for forty years. I started really young, and music gave me everything as well, you see.
B.E: But it's a hard life...
P.W.: Oh yes. But you've got to love it. You've got to have determination.
B.E: You said that you just returned from Kinshasa. Normally in a year, how much time do you spend in Kinshasa and how much in Europe?
P.W.: Oh that depends. If I have jobs here, I will stay here as all my family is here: my wife, my children. We just bought a nice house in a town of the Parisian suburbs. Two of my children are married here, others are at university. Then from time to time, when I have nothing to do here I return to my country and work there, because the country needs me.
B.E: That's for sure. Kinshasa stays faithful to its star, I know that. Now, you were just talking about your long career – it seems that other artists also have long careers. That too is like a big family.
P.W.: Yes, the big band. I was actually saying the other night to the head of my orchestra, Patrick Bebey that next year, if we start to do concerts, then we should form a big band. I'd have violinists, wind instruments, percussionists, and several singers. A group of fifteen people or so. With my new repertoire I think I'll do that.
B.E: That'd be great. I remember when we met once in Zimbabwe, you had a big band then. Ten dancers... wow. That's another side that the show last night had.
P.W.: Oh yes, it's totally different; two different worlds. The only thing in common is the music. And the voice!
B.E: Because yesterday the band was so tight, really together. These are musicians that you have been playing with for a long time, right?
P.W.: Yes, especially the pianist.
B.E: Bebey.. Does he come from the same family as Francis Bebey?
P.W.: Patrick Bebey, he's the son of Francis! He's his son.
B.E: Ok. And let's talk a little about the other musicians... the guitarist, the bassist.
P.W.: One of the guitarists is a young Congolese named Olivier Chimanga. The other, the one with locks, is an old master from Cameroon Yves Ndjock.
B.E: That was Yves Ndjock? The great musician? Ah ok!
P.W.: Yes, yes. And the bassist is Richard Epece, Cameroonian, and the singers are from Benin and Cameroon as well.
B.E: Why is it that Cameroon produces such great bassists? It's incredible!
P.W.: Yes it's incredible! That's just the way it is.
B.E: It must have something to do with the traditional music there, don't you think? It's really unbelievable. Every time you hear a great bassist and think, wow, where does he come from? The answer is 'Cameroon'.
P.W.: Cameroon. Yes. Like Richard Bona, an excellent musician. Richard Bona.
B.E: Do you remember your guitarist around the time of the Afrika Fete, Dominic Kanza. He's still in New York, he's a friend now. He's got a great career, playing with jazz musicians and Angelique Kidjo...
P.W.: It's him that did the song for the World Cup in South Africa, wasn't it? With the singer... I don't remember her name at the moment. Well it was him that played the guitar and the bass for it.
B.E: Well he was young when he was playing with you, wasn't he? And now he has a successful career.
P.W.: And it's thanks to me that he has got to where he is.
B.E: In New York there's a little group of Congolese veterans, there's Lokasa and Ngouma. And every time a singer arrives in New York they'll play with him. We're lucky here, although they miss home too, of course. The life of a musician is hard.
P.W.: Hard, hard, hard.
B.E: Finally, I'm going to use my camera to get a little greeting for the Afropop website, but before that, the new album. I haven't heard any of it yet, so should we expect a change in the sound of your music? Something new that we should listen out for?
P.W.: As I said before, there are two albums that are going to come out. One is for the rumba audience..
B.E: And the name of that one is?
P.W.: Notre Père Rumba. The other one which will come out as well will be called Notre Père Wemba Dyo.
B.E: Ah ok, so two albums. And neither of them are ready yet?
P.W.: No, Notre Père Rumba has already been released.
B.E: And the other?
P.W.: The other will be released next year.
B.E: Ok! And now I'm going to get my camera out to record the greeting. Just introduce yourself and then say hello to the Afropop audience.
P.W.: Afropop public, I think you should recognize me! I'm here in Copenhagen, Papa Wemba, Notre Père (our father), the one who courageously defends African music from inside and outside the country. Papa Wemba. Greetings!
Papa Wemba Interview At WOMEX 2010
Interview by Banning Eyre
,2010
B.E: Thank you! Very good. Wow, what a pleasure. I truly hope that next time we'll meet in New York.
P.W.: Fingers crossed.
B.E: Or Kinshasa, that would do too!
P.W.: Or Kinshasa too, why not.
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