Shortly after Thomas Mapfumo returned from Zimbabwe in February, 2002, Banning Eyre reached him at his home in Eugene, Oregon. They discussed Mapfumo's first performances at home in almost a year, his new album Chimurenga Rebel, and prospects for Zimbabwe's immediate future.

BANNING EYRE What was it like getting back to Harare after such a long time away?

THOMAS MAPFUMO: When we arrived, a lot of people welcomed us at the airport. There were the guys from the TV, from ZBC television. They were by the airport, and they interviewed me. After that, we proceeded home. Well, it was quite a good visit, and a good experience.

The first show that we played, it was in Bulawayo at the Large City Hall. There were many people there. The other one, which was on New Year's Eve, was at Boca Tobacco Auctions. Nearly 10,000 people turned up. We had another one in Mutare. It was a house full, at the Queens' Hall. And then we had another one at the Sheraton, at the conference center in Harare. We had over 3000 people there. And the next day we had another one a Mushandira Pamwe, which was house full. I think the Mushandira Pamwe was the last show that we did.

B.E.: You told it like it is when talking to the press. Were you worried about your safety in doing that?

T.M.: Well, I was a bit concerned, but I wasn't afraid. I knew a lot of ears were listening. A lot of people liked it, though as you know, talking of this recently released music, Chimurenga Rebel, it was banned from being played on the radio. And this, I can confirm with you, because I spoke with one of the DJ's who is working with ZBC, and he said they were called to a meeting by this Minister of Information, Jonathan Moyo. They discussed about my music, especially this recently released one, Chimurenga Rebel. He was saying a lot of things about the music. "This is why this guy named his music Chimurenga Rebel, because he's a rebel. He's just like a terrorist." They were trying to deny, to say that the music was not banned, but it was banned. They never play that music on the radio.

B.E.: But people bought the record.

T.M.: That's right. They're buying the record. They love the music, and they think it's quite a good record.

B.E.: Tell us about some of the songs on Chimurenga Rebel.

T.M.: "Marima Nzara" is about the way the farmers are being treated in that country, the way they are chasing them away. They are actually inviting hunger. That's the meaning of the record. I think the rest of that CD is full of what is happening in that country, like there's another song, "Huni, Huni." It's about that other guy who was causing a lot of problems with the farmers, Chengerai Hunzvi. Huni is just a name. It's like firewood. So we are saying, "Huni, huni. Do not play with the people. Don't mess around with the people. Because the people can actually put you out of power. You will end up living in exile." He [Hunzvi] died. Because he was playing with the people.

B.E.: So did that ZBC television crew ask you about these songs?

T.M.: . Yeah, they did. I told them that my music was for peace, and what I'm actually singing about is a reality. It's about things that are happening today. So they cut it off. [LAUGHS] They had to keep some good parts, where I said a lot of good things. And then where I was a bit critical, they had to just leave that out.

B.E.: Did you ever have the sense that you were in danger?

T.M.: When I went to my home area in the rural areas, Guruve. We were going there to perform some certain ceremonies. So we were there and when we got home, there was not enough meat for the people to eat, so we decided to go to the shopping center to find some meat from the butchery. So when we were there, there were these youngsters. They were being addressed by a policeman. When they saw my car, they came to my car. Of course, William [Thomas's brother] was driving and there were four of us in the car. The other three guys had just got out of the car and I was alone in the car. William was standing outside the car. These youngsters approached them and said, "Are you the owner of this car?" William said, "Yeah, it's our car." These youngsters said, "Can you give us a lift?" William said, "Going where?" [LAUGHS] They said, "Ah, we want to go where we want to go." William pointed to where there were some ETs carrying passengers, and he said, "Why don't you just go to the ETs and get a lift from them? This is not for carrying passengers." Then they said, "Ah, well, we thought that maybe your car was cheaper than them."

So we actually realized that these people were looking for trouble. We drove off from that place and went to a different butchery. They followed us there. We drove off again from that second place and they were watching. We went to another butchery and there was no meat. We had to go to the other butchery. When we were there, these youngsters came. I had my pistol in the car. William was outside the car, and the other two brothers of mine were inside the butchery.

So they came over to me and said, "Good afternoon." I said, "Good afternoon." They said, "Mr Mukanya, can you show us your ZANU-PF party card." [LAUGHS] So I said to these youngsters, "Who are you? How dare you ask me about a ZANU-PF card. What sort of a person are you talking to? Do you know me?" Then I actually produced my pistol, and these youngsters ran away.

Well, we finally got some meat and we drove back home. After awhile, there was a truck full of policemen. They came after me. They said, "We heard you pointed a gun at someone at the shopping center." I said, "I never pointed a gun at anyone. They were threatening us, so we just drove off. We actually left them there by the shopping center." Then they said, "Have you got a license for this gun?" I said, "My license is at home." Because I hadn't brought my license with me. So they took my gun. They actually took it to a police station.

After the ceremonies, I followed them and I explained everything to them. So they said I should actually go back to Harare to get my license. I went back to Harare, and the next morning, we came back--me and William--and we showed them the license. The gun was licensed until 2003. So they gave me my gun back. That's the story. You know, a lot of things are happening there. They go around in the townships beating up people, those who are suspected to be MDC supporters.

B.E.: So what happens if you don't have a card?

T.M.: They beat you up. You might just be kidnapped and be killed. There is a lot of chaos. People are being beaten nearly every evening. The soldiers and the policemen they just go into the pubs and start beating people and accuse them of supporting the MDC. There has been a lot of chaos in that country. It's unbelievable.

B.E.: It must have been great to perform there when people are son hungry for some kind of hope.

T.M.: Ah well, I think it was quite exciting. The situation was quite exciting, but also at the same time, there is a lot of misery amongst our people. People are not happy, Banning. They are being suppressed by the ruling party. Like I said, they go around beating up people, stopping people, erecting road blocks in the rural areas, those militias. It's just no good.

B.E.: So what do you think will happen in the March presidential election?

T.M.: If Mugabe doesn't rig the election, he's going to lose, because a lot of people are very disappointed about him. He has to do a lot of rigging. It's going to be very difficult for him to do that. [LAUGHS] Everyone is saying, "We will meet at the polling station."

B.E.: You really get the feeling that people want to vote, don't you?

T.M.: Yeah, yeah. People want to vote. They would like to vote him out. A lot of them have been saying that.

B.E.: But I understand that you cannot actually vote because you won't be in the country, right?

T.M.: Yeah, I cannot vote, because they actually passed some new laws. They are trying to actually suppress the opposition party, but it ain't going to help. It ain't going to help.

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